We have detected that you are using an adblocking plugin in your browser.

The revenue we earn by the advertisements is used to manage this website. Please whitelist our website in your adblocking plugin.

INTERVIEW | Director Robert Leitner & Playwright Garrett M. Ryan Abrams Talk About The Twin Sues

By Anya Wassenberg on June 6, 2026

L: Actor Katelyn Doyle (Sue Jackson); R: Actor Tipelo Hildebrand (Sue Johnson) in Bird on Stage’s Twin Sues (Photos courtesy of Bird on Stage)
L: Actor Katelyn Doyle (Sue Jackson); R: Actor Tipelo Hildebrand (Sue Johnson) in Bird on Stage’s The Twin Sues (Photo courtesy of Bird on Stage)

In the middle of a fictional (at least, so far) war between Canada and the US, once childhood best friends and former border guards Sue Johnson and Sue Jackson deal with the realities of life under the annexed and reunified twin cities of Sault Ste. Marie, now under under Michigander rule. The “Twin Sues” share a checkpoint on the newly nationalized bridge between the two halves of the city.

Twin Sues by Bird on Stage Productions is a new Canadian play by award-winning playwright Garrett M. Ryan Abrams, directed by Robert Leitner. It’s a dark comedy that takes a documentary-style approach to examining how a friendship can slowly unravel in a world where everything has changed. What remains is the very human desire to belong to something bigger than yourself.

Underneath the dark humour, the work tackles bigger questions of borders, nationalism, authority, and how systems live on, even once their original purpose has disappeared. It’s about personal lives, and their relationship to the larger world — political theatre with an absurdist sense of humour.

The Twin Sues takes the stage from June 10 to 14 at Toronto’s The Assembly Theatre.

Personnel

Garrett M. Ryan Abrams is a Northern Ontarian playwright, director, and dramaturge based in Sault Ste. Marie, and Artistic Director of Bird on Stage. Abrams’ plays have been presented across Canada, and garnered several awards. He focuses on outsider voices and regional identities, working class realism, and the smaller communities often often left out of Canada’s cultural conversations.

Garrett also serves as the Theatre Manager / Artistic Director of the Sault Community Theatre Centre. He holds undergraduate and master’s degrees in Theatre & Performance Studies from York University.

Robert Leitner serves as director and lighting designer for the production. The Jewish American/Canadian theatre practitioner joined the Bird on Stage Productions team in 2018 as an actor. He has since acted, directed, and designed lighting for the company’s productions, and taken on the role of Artistic Producer.

The Twin Sues is Robert’s full solo directorial debut for Bird on Stage.

The production features Katelyn Doyle (she/her) as Sue Jackson. Katelyn is a classically trained Canadian actor and creator, a co-founding member of Half Blind Owl, a theatre collective dedicated to creating original offbeat Canadian theatre.

Toronto-based actor, creator, and arts marketer Tipelo Hildebrand plays Sue Johnson. A graduate of the Acting Conservatory at York University, Tipelo also serves the Director of Marketing & Outreach and co-owner of Bird On Stage Productions.

The creative team includes set, prop, costume designer Madeleine Gagnon, and Toronto-based assistant set and prop designer Bunya Muchaeva.

LV spoke to director Robert Leitner and playwright Garrett M. Ryan Abrams about the show.

L: Twin Sues director & lighting designer Robert Leitner; R: playwright & Bird on Stage Artistic Director Garrett M. Ryan Abrams (Photos courtesy of Bird on Stage)
L: The Twin Sues director & lighting designer Robert Leitner; R: playwright & Bird on Stage Artistic Director Garrett M. Ryan Abrams (Photos courtesy of Bird on Stage)

Robert Leitner & Garrett M. Ryan Abrams: The Interview

“Interestingly enough, I came up with this idea or what spawned into this idea a number of years ago,” says Abrams. He was living in Ottawa for a time, and his initial conception of the piece focused on interprovincial tensions.

“I had this kind of interesting view where it felt like people who I as interacting with,” he says, “[I was] getting [glimpses] of radicalization because they were so complacent. I started looking at what that would look like specifically.

Abrams is now based back in Northern Ontario, in the Canadian Sault Ste. Marie, where he lives with the juxtaposition of the American side.

“We are essentially the same people,” he says. At the same time, politics has a way of inserting itself into the discussion. “The feeling that the world around you is unstable. The very miniscule differences between people can grow and radicalize.”

That’s the essential emotional basis of the play.

Documentary-Style

A documentary-style lens is the framework of his approach. Garrett was influenced by the classic National Film Board of Canada documentaries he’s viewed over his lifetime.

“I kind of leaned into that Canadiana [aspect],” he says. Some of the scenes will have a retrospective feel, while others are very present in the here and now.

“I was actually born and raised in Florida,” adds Leitner, “which makes this show perfect for us as a playwright/director duo.”

Robert notes that he moved to North Bay about 12 years ago for school, so he’s also familiar with Northern Ontario. He’s based in Toronto today. “I feel like I can come into this play with an interesting perspective,” he says.

As a director, he was also influenced by the kind of documentary-style shows he saw as a kid. “I remember growing up and watching TV, and flicking through channels and seeing aliens, and how the pyramids are built,” he says. It’s those late night quasi-documentaries with a lurid edge. “You almost don’t want to see it, but you’re forced to.”

The Play

How do the two characters, the Twin Sues, come across on stage? How do they embody those larger issues behind the story?

“We’ve worked quite a lot with our actors on what’s different, what is the same,” Leitner says. It involved a lot of preliminary discussions. “Originally they were like, […] these characters are not the same,” he says.

But, in working through the story, the two characters have come closer, as old friends do. Robert says even their movements have come together, mirroring each other and in sync, again in the manner of lifelong friends.

“That’s not something we’ve planned,” Robert says. “To be honest, a lot of [it] has to do with Tipelo and Katelyn, our actors with this show.” He notes that they’ve brought their lived experiences to the parts.

“Before I moved to Canada, I was told a lot of things about Canadians,” Leitner says. He heard about classical Canadian passive-aggressiveness. “In Florida, it’s all just anger,” he laughs. Living in Canada, in Northern Ontario, was a very different experience. “I felt like I could walk the whole city.”

Experiencing that duality has informed his approach to the story. “I very much relate to the Canadian side, Sue Johnson in this show,” he says. In the story, it focuses on an identity that is being stripped away by forces outside the character’s control.

Garrett adds, “I think, from a zoomed out level, outside of the performances […] there are the subtle differences, and the absurdity of latching onto those differences.”

When the US government launched its seemingly endless rounds of punitive tariffs against Canada, he noticed how the formerly friendly climate between ordinary citizens of each nation began to change. He saw people antagonizing each other, insulting each other on social media.

“Just very minute and bizarre things that they’re latching on to,” Abrams says. He was struck by how it was mirrored in the microcosm of the two Sault Ste. Maries, one on each side of the border. “The two Sault Ste. Maries are so similar.” He points out that the northern Michigan identity finds itself in things we consider quintessentially Canadian, like maple syrup and toques. “It very much highlighted this idea for me. People, when stress tested, will latch onto those things.”

“I have family that still lives in the states,” Robert adds, “who were very eager to visit before.” Nowadays, he says they want to wait “until everything’s cleared”.

“Watching, to be honest, my own family creating a divide for me, even just living in Canada.” He made a joke about making Florida an 11th province to family members, and it went over like a lead balloon.

“There is still so much tension, on the personal level, over nothing,” Leitner says. “You can hardly contextualize it.”

The Personal & The Political

Those personal observations fed into the story and the production.

“The ones that are actually stirring conflict are not the ones feeling the [stress],” Abrams comments.

In the play, the two friends become radicalized against each other over a conflict they had nothing to do with.

“I think something that’s also been very interesting to explore […] is this idea of setting vs plot,” Robert adds.

The outside world influences personal lives, just as the actions of governments far away influence life in two small cities. The play examines the ideas, not the specific politics.

“It’s very easy to villainize America right now,” Robert continues, “but that’s something that we’re really trying not to do here.”

“As a writer, that was important to me,” Garrett adds. “It’s really about these two average, everyday people who are caught in the crossfire.”

His script takes its cues from other politically minded satires. “I grew up a big fan of Dr. Strangelove and other Cold War satires, and more recently, The Death of Stalin. I love these really [over the top] satires.” He feels the time for it is ripe “It’s now a time to bring back these types of satirical works.”

L-R: Actor & Bird on Stage Director of Marketing & Outreach Tipelo Hildebrand (Sue Johnson); Actor Katelyn Doyle (Sue Jackson); set, prop, costume designer Madeleine Gagnon; assistant set and prop designer Bunya Muchaeva (Photos courtesy of Bird on Stage)
L-R: Actor & Bird on Stage Director of Marketing & Outreach Tipelo Hildebrand (Sue Johnson); Actor Katelyn Doyle (Sue Jackson); set, prop, costume designer Madeleine Gagnon; assistant set and prop designer Bunya Muchaeva (Photos courtesy of Bird on Stage)

Bird on Stage: Indie Theatre

Abrams notes that the success of the project rests on the whole team. “The biggest key thing is the team that we were able to bring together.”

“I think it’s important to note that, Bird on Stage, we’ve been producing our own shows since 2017,” Leitner adds. That began with Fringe Festival shows, developing into mainstage productions over the last couple of years. Their indie spirit is strong.

“[We’re] not waiting around for other people to let us do our work,” Robert continues. “This year, for us, what was really important was that we really want to challenge ourselves. This is definitely our most ambitious project yet.”

Set, prop, costume designer Madeleine Gagnon, and assistant set and prop designer Bunya Muchaeva were brought in to upgrade the creative team. Bird on Stage has worked to create relationships in Toronto, “a city full of art”, as Leitner puts it.

“One of the things that I think excited me the most is working with Madeleine Gagnon,” Leitner says. “She’s our designer. Garrett and I gave her a lot of crazy ideas. She took it right head on and built us a full set. It’s just been so wonderful for us as a company.”

He also credits Tipelo Hildebrand, who’s acting as both co-star and Director of Marketing & Outreach. “She’s helped raise our profile a lot.”

“I think one of the things that’s been really important is that […] since we started doing the Fringe circuit, and that was pretty much out of high school, I’ve called it garage band theatre,” Abrams says. “We still hold that ethos close to us. We really like that DIY style and feel.” He calls is polished, but also crafted.

Bird on Stage brands itself as outsider theatre.

“It will really appeal to those who don’t necessarily feel represented in a lot of mainstream theatre,” Garrett says. It’s about telling the stories of the ordinary, everyday people, rather than the exceptional. Those everyday voices are often overlooked.

“In this story, it’s focused on small city, working class stories that are affected by other things,” Garrett says.

Final Thoughts

“I think people will be excited to see that it’s an engaging and interesting and timely story, but [especially for] anyone who’s had deep friendships, and seen that friendship strain over issues that are outside of themselves,” Abrams says.

The story is about those long term friendships that extend back into childhood. The ones that you take for granted.

“That nostalgia is a big piece of that play,” Garrett says. It’s about those special moments people remember from their high school days. “Those stories are great, and have their place as well. For me as a writer, this is always what I’ve been drawn to. The story’s not going to end with them fundamentally changing the world. But, it makes a big impact on them as individuals.”

It’s a story that takes place well behind the headlines, where the impact is felt on individual people.

“One of the tag lines that perfectly encompasses it, history is made by ordinary people,” Robert adds. “If there’s one sentence that describes the show, it’s that.”

“It’s twofold,” Garrett explains, “one, the ordinary people are those who really shape history — the other side is that people often tap into that sense of [that] anyone can make an impact.” That includes having the power to further radicalization or make propaganda.

“Every action has a reaction, and it keeps going after you’re gone.”

Details

The Twin Sues takes the stage at The Assembly Theatre in Toronto from June 10 to 14, 2026.

  • Find show details and tickets [HERE].

Are you looking to promote an event? Have a news tip? Need to know the best events happening this weekend? Send us a note.

#LUDWIGVAN

Get the daily arts news straight to your inbox.

Sign up for the Ludwig Van Toronto e-Blast! — local classical music and opera news straight to your inbox HERE.

Follow me
Share this article
lv_toronto_banner_high_590x300
comments powered by Disqus

FREE ARTS NEWS STRAIGHT TO YOUR INBOX, EVERY MONDAY BY 6 AM

company logo

Part of

Terms of Service & Privacy Policy
© 2026 | Executive Producer Moses Znaimer