{"id":54574,"date":"2018-06-14T16:21:15","date_gmt":"2018-06-14T20:21:15","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/?p=54574"},"modified":"2018-06-14T16:21:15","modified_gmt":"2018-06-14T20:21:15","slug":"interview-peter-oundjian-on-the-eve-of-saying-goodbye","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/2018\/06\/14\/interview-peter-oundjian-on-the-eve-of-saying-goodbye\/","title":{"rendered":"INTERVIEW | Peter Oundjian On The Eve Of Saying Goodbye"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"Peter
Is the TSO underrated?\u201cAbsolutely, yes.” Peter Oundjian sits down for a candid interview on his past 14 years as Music Director of the Toronto Symphony. (Photo: Jaime Hogge)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

H<\/span>e was this close to me,\u201d Peter Oundjian said. \u201cCan you imagine?” The soon-to-be-conductor-emeritus of the Toronto Symphony Orchestra was comparing the proximity of his interviewer the other day at a Liberty Village caf\u00e9 to that of Herbert von Karajan during a masterclass at the Juilliard School 42 years ago, when, unexpectedly, the young concertmaster was asked to pick up a baton and lead his fellow students through the slow movement of Brahms\u2019s First Symphony.<\/p>\n

Apparently, it went pretty well. The mega-maestro declared in a redoubtable German accent: \u201cYou have the hands of a conductor.\u201d<\/p>\n

This is one reason why Brahms 1 is part of the playlist of Oundjian\u2019s closing month in Toronto as music director. \u201cIt\u2019s a very special piece for me,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n

Karajan\u2019s spot assessment proved inspirational when Oundjian, in his 30s, was forced by neurological difficulties in his left hand to abandon a perfectly brilliant career as the first violin of the Tokyo String Quartet.<\/p>\n

\u201cConducting was the obvious way to go,\u201d he said. \u201cIt was an extension of being the first violinist of a string quartet.\u201d<\/p>\n

While Oundjian had acquired basic conducting chops at Juilliard, he does not deny that his thorough acquaintance with the chamber music of Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and Brahms had more than a little to do with his confidence in core orchestral repertory when he became, in 2004, the second Canadian (after Sir Ernest MacMillan) to take the artistic reins of the TSO.<\/p>\n

This was a return to the city of his birth and first five years. Oundjian\u2019s father, a sergeant in the British army, had seen his share of horrors in the Second World War. His mother thought it best to start fresh in Canada.<\/p>\n

\u201cAn Easter-egg hunt,\u201d Oundjian responds when asked what recollections he has of his Canadian beginnings. As well as a backyard toboggan run that was terminated by a tree.<\/p>\n

Yet it was back in the United Kingdom that Oundjian studied at the Charterhouse School (which Ralph Vaughan Williams had attended) and the Royal College of Music. Also where he acquired an indestructible English accent and sense of humour, the latter perhaps allied to that of his cousin, Monty Python trouper Eric Idle.<\/p>\n

Studies in New York followed, as well as a positive review<\/a> in the New York Times, and no end of quartet performances and recordings. In 1995 Oundjian put down the violin, his reputation and connections intact, and started conducting.<\/p>\n

He was a good fit for the TSO, which was at a low ebb 14 years ago after the unhappy tenure of Jukka-Pekka Saraste (which ended in 2001) and a series of bad-news budgets. At least the famously inadequate acoustics of Roy Thomson Hall had been improved through a structural renovation.<\/p>\n

With some of Karajan\u2019s advice in mind (\u201cguide the orchestra, don\u2019t impose yourself\u201d) Oundjian steadily rebuilt the band while adding big late- and post-romantic scores to his personal repertoire. More than half of TSO players, and two-thirds of principals, are Oundjian picks. While few would question Oundjian\u2019s authority in choosing strings, he seems also to have an ear for wind, brass and percussion, and how they work together.<\/p>\n

\u201cTr\u00e8s solide,\u201d declared Claude Gingras of La Presse in 2012 when Oundjian and the TSO performed Shostakovich\u2019s Symphony No. 12 in Montreal, where the resident MSO was regarded as the gold standard.<\/p>\n

Recordings appeared of other big Russian scores on the homemade TSO Live label: Shostakovich\u2019s Seventh and Eleventh, Rachmaninoff\u2019s Symphonic Dances<\/em>, Stravinsky\u2019s The Rite of Spring<\/em> and Rimsky-Korsakov\u2019s Scheherazade<\/em>. Oundjian\u2019s farewell recording, just released on Chandos, is of music by Vaughan Williams, whom Oundjian came to appreciate as a student in 1972, the composer\u2019s centenary year. He had already documented Symphonies No. 4 and 5 on TSO Live in 2011.<\/p>\n

\u201cBeing in England from age 5 to 19, you\u2019re going to be an Elgarian, you\u2019re going to love Vaughan Williams, Thomas Tallis and William Byrd,\u201d Oundjian says. \u201cAnd Benjamin Britten of course, because I knew Britten and recorded with Britten.\u201d The Shakespeare program of June 26 with Christopher Plummer naturally includes music written by William Walton for the movie Henry V<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Also part of the homestretch, on June 20 and 23, is Mahler\u2019s Ninth, valedictory music if ever any was written. Yet, the conductor waxes most poetic when speaking about Bruckner, whose Eighth Symphony in the 1887 version he led last month in Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa.<\/p>\n

\u201cThere is something about Bruckner that fills me with so much joy and optimism that I feel light for many hours afterwards,\u201d the conductor confessed. \u201cIt\u2019s really extraordinary. The music is unlike almost anything else. The spirituality, the profundity.\u201d<\/p>\n

Oundjian hopes to add the Ninth soon to his personal repertoire of the Third, Fourth, Seventh and Eighth.<\/p>\n

Where he shall have the opportunity to do so is not completely clear. Oundjian, 62, is also giving up the music directorship of the Royal Scottish National Orchestra. His last official concert with the RSNO, on Sept. 6, is a performance of Britten\u2019s War Requiem<\/em> for the Proms<\/a> at Royal Albert Hall.<\/p>\n

\u201cI\u2019m not in a rush,\u201d he said about the prospect of another top position. \u201cBut I\u2019m open to it.\u201d Oundjian is artistic advisor this summer of the Colorado Music Festival<\/a>, but his only steady job is as principal conductor of the Yale Philharmonia.<\/p>\n

Oundjian has taught at Yale since 1981. \u201cWe\u2019re back home,\u201d he said, referring jointly to his wife Nadine and the house in Connecticut that in fact never ceased, during his Toronto tenure, to be his principal address.<\/p>\n

\u201cAm I Canadian? Am I English? Am I Armenian?\u201d Oundjian asks. \u201cI don\u2019t really know how to answer that. And I\u2019m not alone now in the world. People are from all kinds of different countries.\u201d The conductor holds passports to three of them: Canada, the U.K. and the United States.<\/p>\n

The TSO years, a frank success artistically, were not without their rough patches. Oundjian mentions the cancellation of a 2012 tour with Lang Lang as a letdown, although subsequent trips to Europe and Israel <\/a>made amends.<\/p>\n

There were headlines that had little to do with music, such as the tabloid-ready resignation in March 2016<\/a> of CEO Jeff Melanson following the breakup of his marriage to frozen-food heiress Eleanor McCain. Oundjian continues to defend Melanson as a \u201ccharismatic and eloquent person\u201d who \u201chad a lot of vision.\u201d The whole business was a \u201cblip,\u201d in Oundjian\u2019s view, rather than a significant setback.<\/p>\n

One of Melanson\u2019s notable actions in 2015 was the cancellation of an appearance<\/a> by the Russian-speaking Ukrainian pianist Valentina Lisitsa after the latter issued tweets that equated Ukrainian political leaders with swine (and certain anatomical parts thereof).<\/p>\n

\u201cHe didn\u2019t want to give a platform to that voice on the Toronto Symphony stage with his name as executive director,\u201d said Oundjian, who remained silent through the uproar. \u201cIt was a very big step to take. One could argue that it backfired in various ways. But as far as I was concerned, he was very sincere about it.\u201d<\/p>\n

More recently the TSO was in the news for being on the receiving end of a $50,000 cut in funding<\/a> from Toronto City Council ostensibly for failing to meet \u201cdiversity and inclusion goals\u201d as well as hypothetical standards of \u201cgovernance\u201d and \u201cimpact.\u201d<\/p>\n

\u201cAll the press has been saying how amazing it is that we have spread our wings and affected more people with our music and have bigger audiences,\u201d Oundjian says of this decision. \u201cWe go out and do things in the community and all of a sudden we are being swiped for it. I don\u2019t understand it.\u201d<\/p>\n

Whatever diversity and inclusion mean to municipal politicos \u2014 the concert of June 13 was given in collaboration with Pride Toronto \u2014 the TSO has been cultivating new audiences through screenings of films with live orchestral accompaniments. The Wizard of Oz<\/em>, Home Alone <\/em>and Jaws<\/em> were among the offerings this season.<\/p>\n

While he has played no active role in these presentations, Oundjian supports them not only as a way of filling contracted weeks of service but as a means of putting non-classical listeners in touch with live performance and symphonic music. \u201cWe have to justify our existence by being a significant element to a broad enough segment of the community,\u201d he says.<\/p>\n

At the other end of the symphonic spectrum stands the New Creations Festival, one of Oundjian\u2019s most notable programming innovations, and a platform on which Canadian and foreign composers could meet as peers. For better or worse, New Creations has been shuttered, along with the January Mozart Festival. TSO interim CEO Gary Hanson argues that bundling contemporary scores into regular subscription programs<\/a> makes them available to more listeners.<\/p>\n

The Oundjian celebration, in any case, concentrates on classics. On June 16<\/a>, Mussorgsky\u2019s Pictures at an Exhibition in the Ravel transcription, always a showcase for an orchestra, is coupled with Rachmaninoff\u2019s Piano Concerto No. 3 with the Russian star Daniil Trifonov as soloist.<\/p>\n

The final trio of concerts of June 28<\/a>, 29<\/a> and 30<\/a> are dedicated to Beethoven\u2019s Ninth Symphony, the ultimate special-occasion score. Not untouched by historical practice, Oundjian predicts that his tempo for the Adagio molto e cantabile might be close to being twice as fast as that taken by Leonard Bernstein in his famous 1989 recording on the occasion of the fall of the Berlin Wall.<\/p>\n

\u201cBut the Ninth is different from the others in so many ways,\u201d Oundjian says. \u201cThe Fifth is incisive, the Seventh ebullient, the Sixth has this liquid beauty. The Eighth is more like an early classical symphony. But when you get to the Ninth, suddenly you\u2019re dealing with a mass.<\/p>\n

\u201cIf we have the capacity now to play with a certain kind of weight and drama that was not available because the [string instrument] necks were too short and the bows were too light \u2014 if we can give it real power \u2014 I think, if Beethoven were here, would he be excited or offended?\u201d<\/p>\n

Whoever succeeds Oundjian after the two-year interregnum of Sir Andrew Davis as interim artistic director<\/a> can feel reasonably confident of inheriting an orchestra of high calibre.<\/p>\n

\u201cI think the Toronto Symphony has a wonderful purity,\u201d Oundjian said. \u201cEnsemble is quite exceptional. When I go around the world and compare it to orchestras I guest conduct \u2014 [thay are]\u00a0quite<\/em> exceptional. And from the first reading as well. They don\u2019t have a \u2018rehearsal mode.\u2019 They just play really well. And with great flexibility.<\/p>\n

\u201cYou should have seen the audiences [last year] in Vienna. They are very surprised by the quality of the TSO. Which is in a way gratifying, in a way annoying. Why are you surprised? But it is better that they have higher expectations that we fulfil.\u201d<\/p>\n

Is the TSO underrated?<\/p>\n

\u201cAbsolutely, yes. I think, however, that if all goes well, and my successor has a positive energy, the momentum that has been created will continue. Enough people know now about the quality of the Toronto Symphony. I very much hope they continue to grow their reputation.\u201d<\/p>\n

The wisdom of Peter Oundjian<\/h2>\n

On Tafelmusik: <\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cIt never entered my head that we were competing with them. It\u2019s such a different beast completely. They are a wonderful group with a special language and a terrific following. I was excited that they were in town. It gave Toronto extra credibility as a cultural city.\u201d<\/p>\n

On visiting international orchestras:<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cCompeting with the Berlin Philharmonic, the Vienna Philharmonic, the Concertgebouw, that\u2019s a more interesting comparison. That week, quite understandably, people want to hear these orchestras, and there is an effect on [ticket sales for] the TSO.<\/p>\n

\u201cI would like to think that Toronto could be more like New York, where there are orchestras coming in all the time, and people would be more and more interested in hearing symphonic music. Our following would be expanded. \u201c<\/p>\n

On conducting opera:<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cJimmy [American conductor James] Conlon said to me once, \u2018Only do opera if you are prepared to be addicted to it.\u2019 I just haven\u2019t entered that world.\u201d<\/p>\n

On film scores:<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cPlayers say this is really hard music to get around, as hard as Mahler 9. They are long scores that can be relentlessly difficult.\u201d<\/p>\n

On not liking classical music:<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cPeople will say \u2018I don\u2019t like classical music.\u2019 Then you say did you see \u2014 name a film with a John Williams score \u2014 and they say, \u2018Oh, yes, I loved the music to that.\u2019 Well, then you love symphonic music.\u201d<\/p>\n

On Roy Thomson Hall: <\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cRTH is not as bad a hall as people like to say. But you have to work hard to create warmth. You have to let the bow float more and colour it beautifully with the left hand, to let the sound spin, to create a resonance that is very clear and pure.\u201d<\/p>\n

On the cancellation of the Last Night of the Proms in 2013:<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cI don\u2019t know why they stopped it. There are certain things where the music director is\u2026 You pick your battles, let\u2019s put in that way. I saw that it was very successful and a lot of people loved it. There must have been some kind of [directive] from the top management or marketing [people] persuading the artistic side that it\u2019s played itself out, it\u2019s seen its time.<\/p>\n

\u201cI personally don’t understand how that could ever happen. The Last Night of the Proms is such an obvious thing too. The best way for me to answer is that there are some things that I do not control and have not controlled. I didn\u2019t make it my battle. Maybe this is one of my regrets. Because it did draw a wonderful audience.\u201d<\/p>\n

On Bernard Labadie and the Mozart Festival:<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cWonderful. He comes in and does his Mozart, and it has a more pure, classical kind of approach. Lighter than my approach. I love what I hear when Bernard is conducting.\u201d<\/p>\n

On the significance of wind principals: <\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cKelly [Zimba] has a very different sound from [former principal flute] Nora [Shulman]. That\u2019s a different Toronto Symphony right there.\u201d<\/p>\n

On flexibility:<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cA great orchestra has to have amazing flexibility. It\u2019s not like [the late German baritone] Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau. With Fischer-Dieskau, after two notes you know it\u2019s him. You identify the voice immediately. With the symphony orchestra, my goal over the years has been to create an infinite number of voices.\u201d<\/p>\n

On elitism:<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cThe danger is that we are perceived as being elitist, and we actually are. Beethoven would have disapproved of this. He didn\u2019t have the competition of the Beatles and Pink Floyd. But he was a man for the people.\u201d<\/p>\n

On the search for the next music director:<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cThere is nothing you don\u2019t know. They are not that far along.\u201d<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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