{"id":120894,"date":"2026-01-13T14:25:20","date_gmt":"2026-01-13T19:25:20","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/?p=120894"},"modified":"2026-01-13T14:25:20","modified_gmt":"2026-01-13T19:25:20","slug":"interview-dr-anthony-cushing-talks-about-matter-of-north-essays-on-glenn-gould-and-the-idea-of-north","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/2026\/01\/13\/interview-dr-anthony-cushing-talks-about-matter-of-north-essays-on-glenn-gould-and-the-idea-of-north\/","title":{"rendered":"INTERVIEW | Dr. Anthony Cushing Talks About Matter of North: Essays on Glenn Gould and The Idea of North"},"content":{"rendered":"<figure id=\"attachment_120897\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-120897\" style=\"width: 1200px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-full wp-image-120897\" src=\"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/01\/Copy-of-REVIEW-2026-01-13T142433.687.jpg\" alt=\"L: The cover of Matter of North: Essays on Glenn Gould and The Idea of North; R: Contributor and co-editor Anthony Cushing (Photo courtesy of the artist)\" width=\"1200\" height=\"628\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/01\/Copy-of-REVIEW-2026-01-13T142433.687.jpg 1200w, https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/01\/Copy-of-REVIEW-2026-01-13T142433.687-300x157.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/01\/Copy-of-REVIEW-2026-01-13T142433.687-1024x536.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/01\/Copy-of-REVIEW-2026-01-13T142433.687-768x402.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1200px) 100vw, 1200px\" \/><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-120897\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">L: The cover of Matter of North: Essays on Glenn Gould and The Idea of North; R: Contributor and co-editor Anthony Cushing (Photo courtesy of the artist)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>Toronto based academic and author Anthony Cushing and American professor and writer Brent Wetters are the editors of a new book about Glenn Gould. Matter of North: Essays on Glenn Gould and The Idea of North, published by the State University of New York Press, takes a deep dive into the seminal 1967 CBC radio documentary on the \u201cidea of the north\u201d.<\/p>\n<p>In the broadcast, which first aired on December 28, 1967, Gould takes an experimental approach. He uses a technique he dubbed \u201ccontrapuntal radio\u201d, which layers voices talking about the north and their experience of it on top of each other. It creates a unique effect that brings elements of musicality into what is essentially a conversation about the topic.<\/p>\n<p>As a point of fact, Gould\u2019s experience of the north consisted of one train trip in 1965 on the Muskeg Express from Winnipeg to Churchill, Manitoba. But, he was clearly struck by the north as an idea, and an influence.<\/p>\n<p>Glenn Gould, despite his enormous successes and acclaim, retired from live performance at the age of 31. The train trip from Winnipeg to Churchill can be seen as a kind of dividing line between his career as a young international virtuoso and his new direction, where he would explore using technology in various ways instead. He preferred the recording studio, where he could alone, perfecting his work to his satisfaction, to the live concert stage.<\/p>\n<p>The Idea of the North was one of three contrapuntal radio documentaries. In them, he explored themes that included ethics, social commentary, history, and more. Gould produced the three hour-long documentaries between 1967 and 1977, later collecting them into the Solitude Trilogy based on their shared theme of what he called \u201cwithdrawal from the world\u201d. Gould said they were \u201cas close to an autobiographical statement as I intend to get in radio\u201d.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>You can get a taste of Gould\u2019s 1967 radio documentary from the CBC audio archive [<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.cbc.ca\/archives\/glenn-gould-s-solitude-trilogy-the-idea-of-north-1.3333531\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">HERE<\/a><\/strong>].<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>LV talked to Anthony Cushing about the new book, which includes several essays, documents, and other materials revolving around Gould\u2019s radio documentary.<\/p>\n<p>Gould rehearses Bach&#8217;s Partita No. 2 in 1958:<\/p>\n<div class=\"jetpack-video-wrapper\"><span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" class=\"youtube-player\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/WqwZC-yLYI4?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;fs=1&#038;hl=en-US&#038;autohide=2&#038;wmode=transparent\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" style=\"border:0;\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups allow-presentation\"><\/iframe><\/span><\/div>\n<h2>Anthony Cushing, Ph.D.: The Interview<\/h2>\n<p>How did he and co-editor Brent Wetters settle on this particular broadcast as a focus for the book?<\/p>\n<p>\u201cIt&#8217;s one of the odd ducks in his creative output,\u201d notes Cushing. Other than one Gould biography and a radio tribute by Mark Laurie (formerly of the CBC, and also a contributor to the book), it hasn\u2019t received much attention. \u201cBecause it often gets short shrift.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>While Gould made only one foray into the north geographically, it remained an influence on his work as an artist.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cHe was it&#8217;s no surprise that he was a big fan of solitude and the possibilities therein,\u201d Cushing notes. \u201cI think going north of Bloor for him was a real thing,\u201d he laughs, noting that, of course, Gould actually lived lived north of Bloor in Toronto.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThat trip to Churchhill I think was almost a spiritual thing for him.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Music critics and writers have often pointed out that Gould\u2019s interpretations of Bach, in particular, embody his notions of the north \u2014 clean, abstract, and adding a layer of mystery rather than sensuality or emotion to the composer\u2019s music.<\/p>\n<p>Cushing\u2019s solo contribution to the book is titled When a Fugue Isn\u2019t a Fugue: Glenn Gould\u2019s Musical Semiotics of Contrapuntal Radio and The Idea of North. Semiotics involves the study of symbols and signs, and how their meaning is communicated to society.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThis grew out of my graduate work,\u201d Anthony explains. \u201cWhen I started at Western, I was writing about mashups, music mashups, which is predominantly a pop music thing.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>He looked for a deeper element to add to his discussion of the phenomenon. In his search, he found a book of essays about Glenn Gould, including the pianist\u2019s own writing about the north as a concept.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cIt diverted my attention a little bit,\u201d he says. \u201cI had an aha moment.\u201d It took over his direction as an academic.<\/p>\n<p>Gould\u2019s experiments with radio created a discussion of the north as a place and a concept, and so much more. \u201cIt\u2019s also very musical. When he talked about the north, he used musical terms,\u201d he notes. \u201cHe talked about it as an experimental texture.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>In his radio documentaries, he looked to play with the idea of form, and invent his own forms.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThere&#8217;s a very ambitious scene later in the documentary called the dining car,\u201d Cushing says. It includes the voices of four people talking, layered over each other, and also layered with the sounds of the dining car itself.<\/p>\n<p>Gould himself compared his idea of contrapuntal radio to music. \u201cHe likened it to the final fugue in Verdi&#8217;s Falstaff.\u201d In Falstaff, Verdi creates a fugue with ten vocalists. Gould claimed that you couldn\u2019t tell who was singing or saying what, but that was besides the point.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI really wanted to highlight the musical aspects of the idea of north,\u201d Anthony says. \u201cIt&#8217;s rife for those kinds of discussions. I could listen to this work at least twice a month.\u201d In fact, he mentions that he has been listening to Gould\u2019s radio documentary for more than a dozen years now. \u201cI still hear new things. Every now and then I&#8217;ll have a little aha moment at some juncture.\u201d<\/p>\n<div class=\"jetpack-video-wrapper\"><span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" class=\"youtube-player\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/t7zsO8XXHZA?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;fs=1&#038;hl=en-US&#038;autohide=2&#038;wmode=transparent\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" style=\"border:0;\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups allow-presentation\"><\/iframe><\/span><\/div>\n<h3>Essays<\/h3>\n<p>The other essays in the book delve into various topics around Glenn Gould, the north, and the radio broadcast itself. American music professor <strong>Lucille Mok<\/strong>\u2019s piece A Conflicted Soundscape: Glenn Gould\u2019s Idea of North opens the book with a discussion of his radio broadcasts and their context.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cWe have a discussion from <strong>Jeffrey van den Scott<\/strong> \u2014 Glenn Gould and the Non-Imagined North,\u201d Cushing says. It looks at the reality of the north from the perspective of Indigenous people and others who\u2019ve lived in Canada\u2019s northern regions.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christopher DeLaurenti<\/strong>\u2019s Rails of Protest in contrast, focuses on the technical aspects of the radio documentary.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mark Laurie<\/strong>, one of the contributors to the book, was a CBC Radio contributor, and he also explored Gould\u2019s radio work in a 2017 episode of the series IDEAS. Cushing notes that Laurie produced a film response to Gould\u2019s radio piece as part of his Master\u2019s thesis, as well as the audio version that was broadcast on CBC Radio. His contribution to the new book, \u201cThat Incredible Tapestry\u201d: Revisiting Pilgrimage to Solitude, The Idea of North, and the Landscapes of Glenn Gould, talks about Gould\u2019s work as well as his own responses to it.<\/p>\n<p>Finnish scholar <strong>Markus Mantere<\/strong> wrote an essay titled North, History, and the Shadow of Hanslick: Glenn Gould\u2019s Ideal of Musical North and Northern Listening. It examines Gould and his ideas in the context of northern aesthetic sensibilities on a global scale, and as a kind of aesthetic descendant of 19th century Austrian music critic Eduard Hanslick.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cA lot of these chapters came out of the American Comparative Literature Association conference which was held at the U of T in 2013,\u201d Anthony notes.<\/p>\n<p>Cushing was a panelist at the conference, as were many of the other contributors to the book. Many of them were already writing about Gould. \u201cIt&#8217;s funny when you start talking about the north and music, how often Glenn Gould\u2019s name comes up.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThere&#8217;s a chapter from Brent and I called The Genius Is in the Genesis: Demythologizing the Idea of Gould as Creative Outsider,\u201d he says. It explores Gould\u2019s creative process. \u201cWhat is north in the broader creative context?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Gould was the first Canadian to use radio with an experimental approach, but not the first worldwide. Cushing compares Gould\u2019s radio work with global initiatives, like the German H\u00f6rspiel tradition, or the musique concr\u00e8te of Radio France, which incorporated a variety of recorded sounds, as well as elements like looping, splicing, and tempo changes. What did Gould know of these other radio genres?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Paul Sanden<\/strong>\u2019s De-Northing North: Thematic Continuity in Glenn Gould\u2019s Solitude Trilogy looks at the 1967 documentary in the context of Gould\u2019s other work in the trilogy relating to the theme of solitude.<\/p>\n<h3>The Book<\/h3>\n<p>\u201cWe&#8217;re positioning this book as a kind of companion to the idea of north,\u201d Anthony says.<\/p>\n<p>Despite its academic nature, it\u2019s accessibly written.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThe average or maybe the ardent Gould enthusiast would get a lot out of the chapters themselves,\u201d he says.<\/p>\n<p>In addition to the essays, there is a veritable treasure trove of primary sources included as appendices:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Letter from Jim Lotz Accepting Gould\u2019s Interview Request (7 September 1967)<\/li>\n<li>Gould\u2019s Interview Questions for Jim Lotz<\/li>\n<li>Introduction to Transcripts<\/li>\n<li>Jim Lotz Interview Transcript<\/li>\n<li>Walter \u201cWally\u201d Maclean Interview Transcript<\/li>\n<li>Frank Vallee Interview Transcript<\/li>\n<li>Robert Phillips Interview Transcript<\/li>\n<li>Marianne Schroeder Interview Transcript<\/li>\n<li>Gould\u2019s Preliminary Sketch of Form<\/li>\n<li>Janet Somerville\u2019s CBC Publicity Memo (15 November 1967)<\/li>\n<li>Scene-by-Scene Analysis<\/li>\n<li>\u201cEskimo at the Piano\u201d [\u201cEskimo am Fl\u00fcgel\u201d]<\/li>\n<li>Anthony Cushing in Conversation with Marianne Schroeder<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Gould\u2019s list of questions is handwritten while the responses from his interviewees appear in transcript. In the radio documentary, you only hear the responses.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI would argue that Gould&#8217;s questions are irrelevant,\u201d Cushing says. \u201cYou have this discontinuity.\u201d The appendices offer a glimpse at how the various elements of the raw material came together.<\/p>\n<p>The Eskimo at the Piano is a translation of an article from the German publication Der Spiegel.<\/p>\n<p>Cushing interviewed Marianne Schroeder, the only woman whose responses were included in Gould\u2019s piece.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI think those things are worth the price of the book itself,\u201d he says.<\/p>\n<p>Some observations from the appendix materials are perhaps peripheral to the topic of the book, but not entirely irrelevant, such as Gould\u2019s handwritten sketches and notes.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cHis handwriting is not tidy,\u201d Cushing notes.<\/p>\n<p>Because of course it isn\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p>The book was published on July 1, 2025 in a hardcover format that was largely destined for libraries. On January 2, the softcover edition was released, and it\u2019s now available via the University of Toronto, or from your favourite online retailer.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Find Matter of North: Essays on Glenn Gould and The Idea of North on the University of Toronto Press Distribution page [<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/utpdistribution.com\/9798855803150\/matter-of-north\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">HERE<\/a><\/strong>].<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><strong><em>Are you looking to promote an <a href=\"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/advertising\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"color: #0e101a;\"><u>event<\/u><\/span><\/a>? Have a\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/masthead\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><u>news tip<\/u><\/a>? Need to know the best\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/events\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><u>events<\/u><\/a>\u00a0happening this weekend? Send us a\u00a0<\/em><\/strong><a href=\"mailto:anya@ludwig-van.com?subject=Let's%20chat\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><strong><em><u>note<\/u>.<\/em><\/strong><br \/>\n<\/a><\/p>\n<h3 class=\"western\"><em><b>#LUDWIGVAN<\/b><\/em><\/h3>\n<p class=\"western\"><em>Get the daily arts news straight to your inbox.<\/em><\/p>\n<h3 class=\"western\"><em>Sign up for the Ludwig Van Toronto e-Blast! \u2014 local classical music and opera news straight to your inbox <\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/583e6ce0-dfd0-48be-8a33-61256b3c58e3.mlbtlr.com\/p2\/Fbd8jWoWQQ6CdBcLIvut3Q\/02E3cYaETqaj4Xm087cpSg?contactid=S3HHYfHY5rZv5f94S15MnA\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/583e6ce0-dfd0-48be-8a33-61256b3c58e3.mlbtlr.com\/p2\/Fbd8jWoWQQ6CdBcLIvut3Q\/02E3cYaETqaj4Xm087cpSg?contactid%3DS3HHYfHY5rZv5f94S15MnA&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1695737525351000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0QTqKRwRJQFGK3KoJYigxX\">HERE<\/a>.<\/h3>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Anthony Cushing and Brent Wetters are the editors of a new book about Glenn Gould titled Matter of North: Essays on Glenn Gould and The Idea of North.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":64,"featured_media":120897,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[42533,42503,7,29,47,50,63],"tags":[42581,1430],"yst_prominent_words":[11027,9021,17034,10182,10707,10829,8375],"acf":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/01\/Copy-of-REVIEW-2026-01-13T142433.687.jpg","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p9bakr-vrU","amp_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/120894"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/64"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=120894"}],"version-history":[{"count":3,"href":"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/120894\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":120898,"href":"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/120894\/revisions\/120898"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/120897"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=120894"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=120894"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=120894"},{"taxonomy":"yst_prominent_words","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/yst_prominent_words?post=120894"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}