{"id":114730,"date":"2025-05-30T15:01:08","date_gmt":"2025-05-30T19:01:08","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/?p=114730"},"modified":"2025-06-02T08:00:04","modified_gmt":"2025-06-02T12:00:04","slug":"interview-conversation-palestinian-oud-player-abdul-wahab-kayyali-transposition-coming-toronto-june-5","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/2025\/05\/30\/interview-conversation-palestinian-oud-player-abdul-wahab-kayyali-transposition-coming-toronto-june-5\/","title":{"rendered":"INTERVIEW | In Conversation With Palestinian Oud Player Abdul-Wahab Kayyali About Transposition, Coming To Toronto June 5"},"content":{"rendered":"<figure id=\"attachment_114732\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-114732\" style=\"width: 1200px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-full wp-image-114732\" src=\"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/05\/Copy-of-INTERVIEW-72.jpg\" alt=\"L: Cellist Naseem Alatrash; R: Oud virtuoso Abdul-Wahab Kayyali (Photo courtesy of the artists)\" width=\"1200\" height=\"628\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/05\/Copy-of-INTERVIEW-72.jpg 1200w, https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/05\/Copy-of-INTERVIEW-72-300x157.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/05\/Copy-of-INTERVIEW-72-1024x536.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/05\/Copy-of-INTERVIEW-72-768x402.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1200px) 100vw, 1200px\" \/><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-114732\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">L: Cellist Naseem Alatrash; R: Oud virtuoso Abdul-Wahab Kayyali (Photo courtesy of the artists)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>Transposition is the name of a musical project cross-pollinated by both Palestinian and Western classical music. Abdul-Wahab Kayyali, today based in Montr\u00e9al, is an oud virtuoso. He\u2019s teamed up with GRAMMY-nominated cellist Naseem AlAtrash to perform his original music.<\/p>\n<p>The microtonal music of Arabic maqam and Western harmonies blend in an East-West fusion that composer Abdul-Wahab Kayyali calls neoclassical; the oud and the cello make harmonious collaborators, as it turns out.<\/p>\n<p>The Transposition mini-tour will bring them to Ottawa on June 4, Toronto on June 5, and Montr\u00e9al on June 6.<\/p>\n<h3>Abdul-Wahab Kayyali<\/h3>\n<p>Abdul-Wahab Kayyali originally studied the oud at the National Music Conservatory of Amman, Jordan. He also studied with Iraqi oud virtuoso Munir Bashir. As a soloist, he has performed throughout North and South America, in Europe and the Middle East. In 2020,he formed the global music trio Les Arrivants in Montreal, and released a debut solo album title Juthoor the same year.<\/p>\n<h3>Naseem Alatrash<\/h3>\n<p>GRAMMY-nominated Palestinian cellist and composer Naseem Alatrash is based in Boston. He has performed at venues such as the Kennedy Center, Lincoln Center, and the Monterey Jazz Festival in a career known for bending and blending genres.<\/p>\n<p>Alatrash\u2019s music blends jazz with Arabic music and contemporary influences, classical training with improvisation. Along with a busy solo career, he performs with the Turtle Island Quartet, Terence Blanchard, and Amir ElSaffar\u2019s Rivers of Sound. He is an assistant professor of Cello at Berklee College of Music, and directs ensembles at Tufts University and Longy School of Music.<\/p>\n<p>Abdul-Wahab Kayyali performs Ajam Improvisation, from \u201cLes Arrivants\u201d concert at Carleton College, April 20 2024:<\/p>\n<div class=\"jetpack-video-wrapper\"><span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" class=\"youtube-player\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/7kz_C8mJbxE?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;fs=1&#038;hl=en-US&#038;autohide=2&#038;wmode=transparent\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" style=\"border:0;\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups allow-presentation\"><\/iframe><\/span><\/div>\n<h2>Abdul-Wahab Kayyali: The Interview<\/h2>\n<p>How did he come to compose music for the duo of oud and cello? It\u2019s not necessarily an obvious combination.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI studied the oud at the National conservatory of music at Jordan in the 90s,\u201d Kayyali explains. He began by giving about equal time to studying both the cello and the oud. The latter won out when it came time to make a choice.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cBut I love the instrument, and it has a special place in my heart,\u201d he says of the cello.<\/p>\n<p>Kayyali lived in the US for a time, where he met and connected with cellist Naseem Alatrash. The two had discussed performing together, and had plans to begin in 2020 when the world of live music came to a crashing halt with the COVID pandemic.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI kept holding on to the idea that one day, we&#8217;d be able to play together,\u201d says Abdul-Wahab.<\/p>\n<p>On his eventual arrival in Canada, Kayyali wasn\u2019t working as a full-time musician at first. When he made that switch, it put him into a position to apply for funding to develop music for the oud and cello.<\/p>\n<h3>The Music<\/h3>\n<p>\u201cThe program basically consists of my compositions for the most part,\u201d he explains. Most of the material was written over the last few years. \u201cTwo were composed specifically for this project.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The results were initially recorded with another cellist based in Montr\u00e9al, with a live performance that took place in Ottawa in 2023. \u201cSince then, Nassim and I have been in dialogue trying to get this to happen.\u201d The details finally came together last fall. \u201cWe&#8217;ve been working on it ever since.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Despite their longstanding mutual interests, the Canadian mini-tour will be their first. \u201cThis will be the first time that we play together.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Abdul-Wahab Kayyali and cellist Sheila Hannigan perform Kayyali\u2019s Transposition: Duo for Oud and Cello:<\/p>\n<div class=\"jetpack-video-wrapper\"><span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" class=\"youtube-player\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/t_7esvZeavQ?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;fs=1&#038;hl=en-US&#038;autohide=2&#038;wmode=transparent\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" style=\"border:0;\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups allow-presentation\"><\/iframe><\/span><\/div>\n<h3>Is it the Cello?<\/h3>\n<p>There are a few other notable collaborations between <a href=\"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/2023\/11\/22\/interview-cellist-rufus-cappadocia-talks-finding-musical-inspiration-roots-instrument\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">cellists<\/a> like Naseem Alatrash, French cellist Vincent S\u00e9gal, and other instrumentalists that venture beyond the usual Western orchestration. Is it something about the cello&#8230;?<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI think honestly, if you have musicians that are open \u2014 the first thing you need to do, and I try to do this as well, is get out of your comfort zone,\u201d Kayyali says. It\u2019s about coming together to get used to performing in ways outside the usual. \u201c[It\u2019s] using their skill set in a creative way.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>He points out that Alatrash\u2019s background is also Palestinian, so that even though he\u2019s chosen to specialize in a Western instrument, the microtonal music is already in him and his imagination.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThis music does not sound foreign to him,\u201d Abdul-Wahab says. \u201cBut I do think that the cello, maybe because of the register, is more forgiving of issues to do with intonation and tonality.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>A violin, he points out, would be more prone to problematic intonation. \u201cI think the cello is a great complement to Arabic music.\u201d The lowest C is the same on both the cello and oud. \u201cFor our two instruments, they match very much in register.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Their differences and contrasts create interest, such as bowed vs. plucked technique, and the rhythmic possibilities of the oud. \u201cI feel like that contrast is also complementary.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>If more and more musicians are using the cello outside the realm of Western classical music, it may just be that they are catching up to its adaptable nature. Surprisingly, there are few technical issues between the cello and oud.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cWe tune the same, as long we tune to a particular reference \u2014 440 or 442,\u201d he explains. \u201cWe have sheet music, and it&#8217;s pretty detailed.\u201d Naturally, that includes differences to the ornamentation and phrasing, along with other elements.<\/p>\n<h3>Creating Contemporary Palestinian Music<\/h3>\n<p>\u201cI think about it as neoclassical, because it is classically informed,\u201d says Kayyali. That includes both Western and Arabic classical music. \u201cIt\u2019s a product of its time,\u201d he adds, \u201cor, I would describe it as contemporary microtonal music. The cello is able to play microtones.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>He treats both instruments as soloists, with passages where they play together. \u201cI tried to find the right mixture and the right sounds.\u201d The goal is to create complementary sounds. \u201cIt&#8217;s like having a dialogue. I can start a phrase, and the cello completes it. It really has to stand on both legs.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Along the way, he hopes to showcase both instruments in novel ways. \u201cIt&#8217;s really trying to present these instruments in ways that they haven&#8217;t been presented.\u201d<\/p>\n<h3>Final Thoughts<\/h3>\n<p>Naturally, in 2025, as a Palestinian, it\u2019s impossible to escape current events. However, he doesn\u2019t want the music to be experienced, or concert attended, solely because of his nationality.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI want the art to stand on its own two feet regardless of its identity.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Two of the compositions in the program were written specifically to revolve around the issues of Palestinian identity. \u201cOne was before October 7,\u201d he says. The other was written just a few days after, after what he describes as a series of sleepless nights.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI just had to empty it all on the sheet music in front of me,\u201d he says. \u201cIt&#8217;s a very difficult time for our community.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Music and identity, in the end, are inseparable, even as he\u2019d like the music to be judged on its own merits. \u201cThis is our way of establishing our humanity,\u201d he says. \u201cI do want people to give the music a chance,\u201d he adds.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cHonestly, the music is not bound by geography. For me, this is the promise of music, of art, is to challenge this idea that humans can be separated by anything.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Even when it comes to purely aesthetic concerns, purity is another way of expressing exclusion \u2014 and sterility.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cMixture usually produces better results,\u201d he says. \u201cPurity is an evil construct.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>While his primary instrument is the oud, one with a history that stretches back thousands of years, he uses it in a contemporary mode.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI&#8217;m not thinking of it as a relic of the past.\u201d<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Find more details and tickets for the Ottawa concert on June 4 [<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.marsm.ca\/upcoming-events\/transposition-ottawa\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">HERE<\/a><\/strong>], the June 5 concert in <strong>Toronto<\/strong> [<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.marsm.ca\/upcoming-events\/transposition-toronto\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">HERE<\/a><\/strong>], June 6 in Montr\u00e9al [<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.placedesarts.com\/en\/event\/transposition\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">HERE<\/a><\/strong>]<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><strong><em>Are you looking to promote an <a href=\"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/advertising\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"color: #0e101a\"><u>event<\/u><\/span><\/a>? 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