{"id":111628,"date":"2025-02-10T12:08:52","date_gmt":"2025-02-10T17:08:52","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/?p=111628"},"modified":"2025-02-14T08:27:29","modified_gmt":"2025-02-14T13:27:29","slug":"interview-toronto-psychoanalyst-and-author-mavis-himes-talks-about-her-book-cello-notes-music-and-the-urgency-of-time","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.ludwig-van.com\/toronto\/2025\/02\/10\/interview-toronto-psychoanalyst-and-author-mavis-himes-talks-about-her-book-cello-notes-music-and-the-urgency-of-time\/","title":{"rendered":"INTERVIEW | Toronto Psychoanalyst And Author Mavis Himes Talks About Her Book Cello Notes: Music and the Urgency of Time"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"Toronto
Toronto Psychoanalyst, author, and amateur cellist Mavis Himes (Photo: Pierre Gautreau Photography)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

In the fall of 1978, Mavis Himes\u2019 life changed.<\/p>\n

She was beginning her career as a clinical psychologist in Toronto and had taken up a position as a language therapist in a children\u2019s mental health clinic when she met Billy.<\/p>\n

Diagnosed with selective mutism, Himes was warned his progress was slow, but she was excited by the challenge and, one day, played him Richard Strauss\u2019 Also spruce Zarathustra.<\/p>\n

\u201cAs Billy listened to the tape, his face transformed. Pointing to the tape, he said, \u2018Again, again,\u2019\u201d she says. \u201cI experienced music\u2019s ability and potential to awaken a dispirited soul.\u201d<\/p>\n

That sense of child-like wonder pervades throughout Cello Notes: Music and the Urgency of Time: memoir meditating on aging, Time, cancer, and COVID. In it, Himes recounts how, on the cusp of retirement, searching for intellectual and emotional stimulation, she decided to learn to how to play the cello, despite the fact that, when asked about her desire, she was uncertain.<\/p>\n

\u201cWhat I did know,\u201d she writes, \u201cwas that I was committed to discovering something about music and wished to pursue that desire as far as it would take me.\u201d<\/p>\n

In the 234 pages of Cello Notes, guided by Himes\u2019 psychologically acute narration, we are privy to this intense, personal pursuit, which touches on life events such as grieving a parent, watching a partner age, bonding with a teacher, and falling in love with one\u2019s instrument. From playing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star to Dvo\u0159\u00e1k\u2019s New World Symphony,\u201d] Himes \u2014 who describes herself as a stubborn overachiever \u2014 is living proof that age, rather than a barrier, can be an inspiration; and that practice, rather than perfect, does indeed make progress.<\/p>\n

I had a chance to ask Mavis Himes about Cello Notes, and ask her what she\u2019s up to now.<\/p>\n

Mavis Himes: The Interview<\/h2>\n

A Personal Connection<\/h4>\n

LvT:<\/strong> Cello Notes is dedicated to Dr. Dobrochna Zubek, your teacher, who you formed a friendship with. As a psychologist who has been influenced and informed by Freud and Lacan, what do you make of the \u201ccomplex relationship of student and teacher\u201d?<\/p>\n

MH:<\/strong> For me, becoming a student in an unfamiliar field reawakened feelings of doubt and uncertainty, a position far removed from the state of self-assurance and self-confidence with which I normally navigate the world. This state of insecurity and doubt, along with performance anxiety and a desire to please, is certainly familiar to me in my professional capacity when working with patients who seek my approval and invest me with the powers of an all-knowing expert.<\/p>\n

In psychoanalytic lingo, we refer to this complex set of affects and reactions as the dynamics of transference. Given the uneven power dynamics, the nature of student-teacher relationships can be said to parallel in some ways the analytic relationship between analyst and analysand. As a mature adult having undergone my own analysis, I was surprised to experience these same primitive feelings arise again in my relationship with Dobrochna. However, this did not last and I was certainly able to move into a position of capitalizing on the talents and wisdom of my teacher without the initial self-consciousness of a beginner.<\/p>\n

Writing a Memoir<\/h4>\n

LvT:<\/strong> Writing a memoir can sometimes lean towards solipsism, but in Cello Notes, you give space to the stories of others, like Ric and George Heinl Sr., Mrs. Petrovsky and Mrs. Czerniak, Aunt Ida, Itzel \u00c1vila, Mich\u00e8le Ashley and Norbet Palej. An orchestra is not made up of a soloist. What made you want to share those stories?<\/p>\n

MH:<\/strong> From the beginning of writing this memoir, I was concerned about it becoming too self-centred and self-focused. Dobrochna encouraged me to think of my cello studies as a journey and I took that advice very much to heart. On this wonderful odyssey, I have made and continue to make new friends and acquaintances: other amateur musicians, performers, musicologists, teachers of music theory and music appreciation, to name a few. It seemed important to include their thoughts and experiences.<\/p>\n

The Physical Demands of Being a Musician<\/h4>\n

LvT:<\/strong> In Cello Notes, you write about the toll playing the cello has taken on your body \u2014 everything from back pain to tendonitis. After an injury, you had to step back from music. How has your relationship with your body and your instrument changed through the years?<\/p>\n

MH:<\/strong> In the early years of cello playing, I experienced many physical challenges that arose from the awakening of many undeveloped body parts, like finger, hand and shoulder muscles. I would say, in contrast to the gradual way a child\u2019s growing body adapts, my body reacted more quickly to the new demands. The advantage of an older body (or, at least, in my case) is that this immediate respond to strain and misuse could be addressed before poor technique became engrained. Now it is also true that no matter at what age, the repetitive demands of instrument playing take a toll by overuse. The process continues as I am still learning about new muscles yet to be strengthened, such as those in the palm of my hands. Who knew these even existed?<\/p>\n

The Power of Music\u2019s Origins<\/h4>\n

LvT:<\/strong> There\u2019s a recurring theme in your memoir about returning to the origins of things \u2014 like the history behind certain words \u2014 patience and amateur, for instance. What do you think we can learn by tracing the roots of music, words and instruments?<\/p>\n

MH:<\/strong> For me, there is something mythic about beginnings and origins, yet it does not preempt these pursuits, like the search for our own personal family history or ancestry. Scientists also explore similar territory in their quest for first causes, like an explanation of the second before the Big Bang. In daily discourse, we speak about getting to the \u201croot\u201d or \u201cbottom\u201d of things when we want to understand a phenomenon.<\/p>\n

In my clinical work, language has always been primary as the unconscious is known to speak elliptically \u201cthrough us.\u201d So yes, words matter, and I occasionally search for a word\u2019s etymological meaning to help uncover what may be hidden behind a chosen word; it takes me to another level of discovery.<\/p>\n

An Evolving Relationship with the Cello<\/h4>\n

LvT:<\/strong> You talk about having a deep connection to two cellos \u2014 Daisy and Simone \u2014 but I\u2019m curious if there\u2019s been any new development in that relationship since you wrote Cello Notes. And what piece of music are you playing nowadays?<\/p>\n

MH:<\/strong> I continue to play with Simone, a 7\/8 French cello with a French bow. She is a physically petite instrument that perfectly matches my body, so I do not see changing her at all. I would say that since my first experiences with Simone, she has \u201copened up\u201d to a deepening of sound with greater richness and clarity in tone. I like to believe this is a mutually evolving process between Simone and me that I will continue to discover. These changes are also reflected in my expanding repertoire of pieces with more complexity and length.<\/p>\n

Some of the favourite pieces I am currently working on are Bach\u2019s gigue from his suite No. 1, Adoration by the American composer Florence Price, and Pablo Casal\u2019s Song of the Birds.<\/p>\n

In addition to my weekly private lessons, I am now also playing in an amateur string orchestra.<\/p>\n

Pursuing New Dreams<\/h4>\n

LvT:<\/strong> Now that Cello Notes is out and you\u2019ve reflected on all that you\u2019ve experienced, what\u2019s the next big project or dream you\u2019re pursuing? How do you envision the next chapter in your life, this ongoing project, you write, \u201cto construct a picture of a maturing woman in the twentieth-first century\u2026carving out new pathways in and for our time\u201d?<\/p>\n

MH:<\/strong> I am currently working on a project to bring my four and a half decades of professional experience as a clinician together with my newly acquired insights as an aspiring cellist. I would like to work with emerging artists in a group model and I am currently in dialogue with a few people regarding this venture. We shall see how it develops.<\/p>\n